• Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-s

    From Happy Oyster@110:300/11 to All on Fri Nov 18 00:05:22 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software

    In case you did not see this...


    On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 23:19:53 +0100 (CET), Jeremy Bentham <nobody@anemone.mooo.com> wrote:

    Back in 2003, the city of Munich announced its plans to switch
    from Microsoft Windows to Linux on 14,000 PCs which were under
    usage at municipal government. Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer flew
    to Munich to meet the mayor to reverse their decision. But they
    declined Steve BallmerÆs request and completed their plan in
    December 2013. The sad news is that the end users were not so
    happy with Linux and the government was also not happy with the
    price savings it offered when compared to Windows.

    Today, TechRepublic reported that Munich is planning to move
    back to Microsoft Windows and Office on its PCs. As per the
    report commissioned by current mayor Dieter Reiter, they have
    started a project to make Windows 10 and Microsoft Office
    available to employees as a choice when they choose their PC. If
    majority of the users liked Windows over Linux, they will
    investigate whether it makes economic sense to continue using
    Linux as a client operating system.

    The cityÆs human resources department (POR) is particularly
    critical of LiMux, saying that since 2006 when the POR started
    using LiMux and OpenOffice, later switching to LibreOffice, that
    ôthe efficiency and productivity of the POR-supported workplaces
    has decreased noticeablyö û referencing crashes, display and
    printing errors.

    ôEven 10 years after the start of the LiMuX migration, the users
    and users of the POR are dissatisfied,ö says the letter,
    claiming that, even after updates, LiMux and LibreOffice are
    ôfar behind the current technical possibilities of established
    standard solutionsö.

    Read more about this story here. Recently, we reported that
    Microsoft has reached an agreement with the Italian Ministry of
    Defence to deploy Windows 10 on all the PCs of ministryÆs civil
    and military employees. Looks like Windows on the desktop is
    becoming stronger than ever. What do you think?

    Comments:

    DarthTheme ò 8 days ago
    Some people think that open source software is a good choice
    just because they are free, but forget to analyze the quality of
    this software.
    13 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    donzebe DarthTheme ò 8 days ago
    Yep, Free always come with a price that ends up being more
    expensive.
    2 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    Burning Smile DarthTheme ò a day ago
    Actually its just end users who don't understand how to use
    Linux as an operating system since they are used to Windows. In
    reality Linux is FAR Superior to Windows and LibreOffice is
    about the same as Microsoft office. It just falls on end users
    not being trained on how to use it.
    1 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    Bryce Motte Burning Smile ò a day ago
    Training cost time and money. With windows half of the training
    can be done at home on their own system. Desktop Linux isn't
    even close to the usability demographic that windows is. Just
    because it can do more for a power user it can hinder a standard
    user.
    2 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    John Bryce Motte ò 3 hours ago
    The money saved on Microsoft licensing will be spent on end-user
    training and wasted IT labor.
    ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    traffikator Burning Smile ò 21 hours ago
    Yes. And it is the end users we are trying to satisfy and make
    productive. Limux did not work for them after 13 years. It this
    case and in most other cases, a majority of users had similar
    experiences. I hope you are not a manager who insist on forcing
    a software change on employees that will decrease production,
    increase frustration and decrease effective workers. Jackass!
    1 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    John Burning Smile ò a day ago
    There are a lot of people like you in IT, but none of them
    understand "grown-up" IT, it's all "how can we hack-job this the
    hardest for cheap, screw end-user experience".
    1 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    Alin Maior ò 8 days ago
    Learning the hard way
    8 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    Alfred Soyemi Alin Maior ò 8 days ago
    I disagree, because you missed "VERY" in front of the hard way
    7 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    https://mspoweruser.com/munich-city-planning-to-move-back-to- >microsoft-windows-and-office-from-open-source-software/
    --
    Homöopathie ist nichts als Hütchenspielerbetrug und organisierte Kriminalität http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/565.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/570.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/585.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/643.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/647.htm

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: MLM Trap (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From F Volker@110:300/11 to All on Fri Nov 18 00:54:48 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from
    open-source software

    On 11/18/2016 06:05 AM, Happy Oyster wrote:
    In case you did not see this...


    On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 23:19:53 +0100 (CET), Jeremy Bentham <nobody@anemone.mooo.com> wrote:

    Back in 2003, the city of Munich announced its plans to switch
    from Microsoft Windows to Linux on 14,000 PCs which were under
    usage at municipal government. Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer flew
    to Munich to meet the mayor to reverse their decision. But they
    declined Steve BallmerÆs request and completed their plan in
    December 2013. The sad news is that the end users were not so
    happy with Linux and the government was also not happy with the
    price savings it offered when compared to Windows.

    Today, TechRepublic reported that Munich is planning to move
    back to Microsoft Windows and Office on its PCs. As per the
    report commissioned by current mayor Dieter Reiter, they have
    started a project to make Windows 10 and Microsoft Office
    available to employees as a choice when they choose their PC. If
    majority of the users liked Windows over Linux, they will
    investigate whether it makes economic sense to continue using
    Linux as a client operating system.

    The cityÆs human resources department (POR) is particularly
    critical of LiMux, saying that since 2006 when the POR started
    using LiMux and OpenOffice, later switching to LibreOffice, that
    ôthe efficiency and productivity of the POR-supported workplaces
    has decreased noticeablyö û referencing crashes, display and
    printing errors.

    ôEven 10 years after the start of the LiMuX migration, the users
    and users of the POR are dissatisfied,ö says the letter,
    claiming that, even after updates, LiMux and LibreOffice are
    ôfar behind the current technical possibilities of established
    standard solutionsö.

    Read more about this story here. Recently, we reported that
    Microsoft has reached an agreement with the Italian Ministry of
    Defence to deploy Windows 10 on all the PCs of ministryÆs civil
    and military employees. Looks like Windows on the desktop is
    becoming stronger than ever. What do you think?

    Comments:

    DarthTheme ò 8 days ago
    Some people think that open source software is a good choice
    just because they are free, but forget to analyze the quality of
    this software.
    13 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    donzebe DarthTheme ò 8 days ago
    Yep, Free always come with a price that ends up being more
    expensive.
    2 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    Burning Smile DarthTheme ò a day ago
    Actually its just end users who don't understand how to use
    Linux as an operating system since they are used to Windows. In
    reality Linux is FAR Superior to Windows and LibreOffice is
    about the same as Microsoft office. It just falls on end users
    not being trained on how to use it.
    1 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    Bryce Motte Burning Smile ò a day ago
    Training cost time and money. With windows half of the training
    can be done at home on their own system. Desktop Linux isn't
    even close to the usability demographic that windows is. Just
    because it can do more for a power user it can hinder a standard
    user.
    2 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    John Bryce Motte ò 3 hours ago
    The money saved on Microsoft licensing will be spent on end-user
    training and wasted IT labor.
    ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    traffikator Burning Smile ò 21 hours ago
    Yes. And it is the end users we are trying to satisfy and make
    productive. Limux did not work for them after 13 years. It this
    case and in most other cases, a majority of users had similar
    experiences. I hope you are not a manager who insist on forcing
    a software change on employees that will decrease production,
    increase frustration and decrease effective workers. Jackass!
    1 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    John Burning Smile ò a day ago
    There are a lot of people like you in IT, but none of them
    understand "grown-up" IT, it's all "how can we hack-job this the
    hardest for cheap, screw end-user experience".
    1 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    Alin Maior ò 8 days ago
    Learning the hard way
    8 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    Avatar
    Alfred Soyemi Alin Maior ò 8 days ago
    I disagree, because you missed "VERY" in front of the hard way
    7 ò ReplyòShare ¢

    https://mspoweruser.com/munich-city-planning-to-move-back-to-
    microsoft-windows-and-office-from-open-source-software/
    Although crossposted, some here will be extremely pleased with this
    somewhat lengthy and well described post as it should encourage vigorous discussion. It's not even necessary to click on the link; Good job!

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From J.O. Aho@110:300/11 to All on Fri Nov 18 07:13:01 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from
    open-source software

    On 11/18/2016 12:05 AM, Happy Oyster wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 23:19:53 +0100 (CET), Jeremy Bentham <nobody@anemone.mooo.com> wrote:

    Today, TechRepublic reported that Munich is planning to move
    back to Microsoft Windows and Office on its PCs.
    In case you did not see this...

    It's a company called Accenture who started this rumour as they think
    it's better with microsoft windows, but you can wonder how objective
    they are as they are Microsoft's Alliance Partner of the Year 2016.

    There has always been a political struggle in Munich about LiMux,
    specially politicians who had clear connection to microsoft and out of
    touch with the workers actually using LiMux.
    Before summer 2017 there will not be any change at all and Munich may
    decide to go with ChromeOS, who knows, at least it sells better than
    microsoft windows 10.

    --

    //Aho

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: The Kofo System II BBS (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From bad sector@110:300/11 to All on Fri Nov 18 16:08:38 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from
    open-source software

    On 11/17/2016 06:05 PM, Happy Oyster wrote:

    https://mspoweruser.com/munich-city-planning-to-move-back-to-
    microsoft-windows-and-office-from-open-source-software/

    As far as i'm concerned nearly all of the anti-MS flak has been drawn by
    the technically degenerate and policywise predatory parasite nature
    behind windows itself and not by the more notable MS clientware or
    suites. If there is any truth to rumors that w-10 is the last dosglass
    and that a Linuxish opensource OS lights up microsoft's future then i'm
    gonna go out on a limb and state that that could be excellent news for
    all concerned (except maybe apple although looking at last year's apple expenses in my familiy alone being around $20k i somehow wouldn't sweat
    it for the Mac)! In such a context i can also see the cited drift back
    to what i will here call 'pro-ware'.

    Foss is indispensable for the little people including schools or smaller
    towns who can afford to put up with well intended but less than
    shining-star apps or suites, this being the crux of the linux world so
    far. MS on the other hand cannot just throw in the towel and more
    importantly even if they did someone else would soon *have to* come and
    start up MS-2, would that be the new Mac the Messiah? Why? Because as
    many have pointed out trainig costs and reliability issues would
    recreate an imediate need as we see in the Munich example (if it be
    true) where the math just doesn't bring in the bacon.

    As opposed to some in my family i am neither an organisational nor a
    business user of linux, but tinkering with music has become my hobby and
    here comes the punch-line: i'd be very happy to pay MS a thousand
    dollars, or a couple of hundred per year, for an office-level musical
    studio that leaves everything else in the dust ...but THERE IS NOTHING
    of the kind in linuxland, and NOTHING in the world will ever get me to
    use windows or a Mac just to get to some clientware!!! I can well see
    many sectors of the market feeling the same except much more pointedly.

    MS could well contribute a LOT to Linux on a virtually no cost basis and
    at the same time develop and sell major closed-source apps/suites
    running on it. Actually they could even do the latter without the former
    but participation would obviously improve their lot as well as the lot
    of the little users and the community as a whole. So, in such a scenario
    would we be looking at an MS distro? How long would it take for that
    and the better existing distros to squeeze out the rest of the field?
    Would that contribute to normalising Linux to a more predictable set of LSB-like packages that all devs can run to in confidence (the current
    LSB doesn't even provide stick support)?

    I'm getting on in years and have every day one less dog in the fight BUT
    i'll be happy when i find a pro-level LogicPro-like MS suite and a good
    guitar effects app that i can run on any one of my distros of choice....







    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: The Kofo System II BBS (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From Askfor@110:300/11 to All on Fri Nov 18 19:23:25 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from
    open-source software

    Happy Oyster wrote:
    In case you did not see this...

    There was a government agency which planned switch to Linux. Employees
    hated it. The reasons are less obvious than one could imagine. Majority
    of employees had "unofficial" software which worked on Windows only and
    it often wasn't related to work at all.

    A friend of mine worked in other government agency, which planned
    partial switch. They had full scale rebellion. Employees who were
    supposed to get Linux desktop felt that they are second class employees, because they were given software which is free of charge.

    One must admire Microsoft's marketing effort and wonder why they even
    bother writing software instead of doing pure marketing.

    When company does switch to something non-windows, there is always a
    group of troublemakers who create drama every time they can't do
    something like they used to before. Like "if I had Photoshop, I could
    just drag & drop this...., but now I must.....". Often it is about their favorite porn viewer not working on Linux.


    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: T-Com (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From Carlos E.R.@110:300/11 to All on Sat Nov 19 00:05:44 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from
    open-source software

    On 2016-11-18 00:05, Happy Oyster wrote:
    In case you did not see this...


    On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 23:19:53 +0100 (CET), Jeremy Bentham <nobody@anemone.mooo.com> wrote:

    Back in 2003, the city of Munich announced its plans to switch
    from Microsoft Windows to Linux on 14,000 PCs which were under
    usage at municipal government. Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer flew
    to Munich to meet the mayor to reverse their decision. But they
    declined Steve BallmerÆs request and completed their plan in
    December 2013. The sad news is that the end users were not so
    happy with Linux and the government was also not happy with the
    price savings it offered when compared to Windows.

    Today, TechRepublic reported that Munich is planning to move
    back to Microsoft Windows and Office on its PCs. As per the

    About a year ago, there was a similar "rumour", which was later found
    false. It was simply the opposition party making noise, for political
    reasons.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Aioe.org NNTP Server (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From J.O. Aho@110:300/11 to All on Sat Nov 19 08:53:37 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from
    open-source software

    On 11/19/2016 12:05 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2016-11-18 00:05, Happy Oyster wrote:
    In case you did not see this...


    On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 23:19:53 +0100 (CET), Jeremy Bentham
    <nobody@anemone.mooo.com> wrote:

    Back in 2003, the city of Munich announced its plans to switch
    from Microsoft Windows to Linux on 14,000 PCs which were under
    usage at municipal government. Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer flew
    to Munich to meet the mayor to reverse their decision. But they
    declined Steve BallmerΓÇÖs request and completed their plan in
    December 2013. The sad news is that the end users were not so
    happy with Linux and the government was also not happy with the
    price savings it offered when compared to Windows.

    Today, TechRepublic reported that Munich is planning to move
    back to Microsoft Windows and Office on its PCs. As per the

    About a year ago, there was a similar "rumour", which was later found
    false. It was simply the opposition party making noise, for political reasons.


    This time it's a microsoft partner who started this rumour.

    --

    //Aho

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: The Kofo System II BBS (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From Vaso@110:300/11 to All on Sat Nov 19 15:05:25 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from
    open-source software

    On 11/18/2016 12:54 AM, F Volker wrote:
    On 11/18/2016 06:05 AM, Happy Oyster wrote:
    In case you did not see this...

    https://mspoweruser.com/munich-city-planning-to-move-back-to-
    microsoft-windows-and-office-from-open-source-software/
    Although crossposted, some here will be extremely pleased with this
    somewhat lengthy and well described post as it should encourage vigorous discussion. It's not even necessary to click on the link; Good job!


    has it something to do with easier spying of companies and so on? :-) :-)

    --
    Branko Vasiljev:
    Vise se NIkada Nitko NECE Na Softveru
    Obogatiti Kao g-din Bill Gates!!

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Belcom (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From Vaso@110:300/11 to All on Sat Nov 19 15:06:18 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from
    open-source software

    On 11/19/2016 12:05 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2016-11-18 00:05, Happy Oyster wrote:
    In case you did not see this...


    On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 23:19:53 +0100 (CET), Jeremy Bentham
    <nobody@anemone.mooo.com> wrote:

    Back in 2003, the city of Munich announced its plans to switch
    from Microsoft Windows to Linux on 14,000 PCs which were under
    usage at municipal government. Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer flew
    to Munich to meet the mayor to reverse their decision. But they
    declined Steve BallmerÆs request and completed their plan in
    December 2013. The sad news is that the end users were not so
    happy with Linux and the government was also not happy with the
    price savings it offered when compared to Windows.

    Today, TechRepublic reported that Munich is planning to move
    back to Microsoft Windows and Office on its PCs. As per the

    About a year ago, there was a similar "rumour", which was later found
    false. It was simply the opposition party making noise, for political reasons.



    And some 'participation' from M$!? LOL

    --
    Branko Vasiljev:
    Vise se NIkada Nitko NECE Na Softveru
    Obogatiti Kao g-din Bill Gates!!

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Belcom (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From Vaso@110:300/11 to All on Sat Nov 19 15:09:47 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from
    open-source software

    On 11/18/2016 07:23 PM, Askfor wrote:
    Happy Oyster wrote:
    In case you did not see this...

    There was a government agency which planned switch to Linux. Employees
    hated it. The reasons are less obvious than one could imagine. Majority
    of employees had "unofficial" software which worked on Windows only and
    it often wasn't related to work at all.

    A friend of mine worked in other government agency, which planned
    partial switch. They had full scale rebellion. Employees who were
    supposed to get Linux desktop felt that they are second class employees, because they were given software which is free of charge.

    One must admire Microsoft's marketing effort and wonder why they even
    bother writing software instead of doing pure marketing.

    When company does switch to something non-windows, there is always a
    group of troublemakers who create drama every time they can't do
    something like they used to before. Like "if I had Photoshop, I could
    just drag & drop this...., but now I must.....". Often it is about their favorite porn viewer not working on Linux.


    Anybody can watch porn on the working place?
    Are they looking for employees? ROTFL

    --
    Branko Vasiljev:
    Vise se NIkada Nitko NECE Na Softveru
    Obogatiti Kao g-din Bill Gates!!

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Belcom (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From Happy Oyster@110:300/11 to All on Sun Nov 20 05:29:42 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software

    On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 19:23:25 +0100, Askfor <askfor@nowhere.net> wrote:


    A friend of mine worked in other government agency, which planned
    partial switch. They had full scale rebellion. Employees who were
    supposed to get Linux desktop felt that they are second class employees, >because they were given software which is free of charge.

    A company which has THAT KIND of employees is in BIG trouble. Their HR department should not have hired a chicken shack.
    --
    Homöopathie ist nichts als Hütchenspielerbetrug und organisierte Kriminalität http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/565.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/570.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/585.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/643.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/647.htm

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: MLM Trap (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From Happy Oyster@110:300/11 to All on Sun Nov 20 05:30:46 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from open-source software

    On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 15:05:25 +0100, Vaso <branko.vasiljevSPAM@xnet.hr>
    wrote:

    has it something to do with easier spying of companies and so on? :-) :-)

    Damned sure. But the spies won't tell us. ;O)
    --
    Homöopathie ist nichts als Hütchenspielerbetrug und organisierte Kriminalität http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/565.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/570.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/585.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/643.htm http://ariplex.com/folia/archives/647.htm

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: MLM Trap (110:300/11@linuxnet)
  • From Askfor@110:300/11 to All on Sun Nov 20 17:48:40 2016
    Subject: Re: Munich city planning to move back to Windows and Office from
    open-source software

    Vaso wrote:
    On 11/18/2016 07:23 PM, Askfor wrote:
    Happy Oyster wrote:
    In case you did not see this...

    There was a government agency which planned switch to Linux. Employees
    hated it. The reasons are less obvious than one could imagine. Majority
    of employees had "unofficial" software which worked on Windows only and
    it often wasn't related to work at all.

    A friend of mine worked in other government agency, which planned
    partial switch. They had full scale rebellion. Employees who were
    supposed to get Linux desktop felt that they are second class employees,
    because they were given software which is free of charge.

    One must admire Microsoft's marketing effort and wonder why they even
    bother writing software instead of doing pure marketing.

    When company does switch to something non-windows, there is always a
    group of troublemakers who create drama every time they can't do
    something like they used to before. Like "if I had Photoshop, I could
    just drag & drop this...., but now I must.....". Often it is about their
    favorite porn viewer not working on Linux.


    Anybody can watch porn on the working place?
    Are they looking for employees? ROTFL


    I've said government agency. That should be a sufficient explanation. Government agencies are well known examples of hard work, diligence, efficiency and rational spending of funds and resources, right ?
    BTW, City of Munich is also, technically, a government institution




    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: T-Com (110:300/11@linuxnet)